They deserve our respect. "I initially was stationed in Korea. May 31, 2017 in MILITARY HISTORY DISCUSSIONS. He says it was completely random, some bodies had to go to 7th Army and his lucky number came up. The question became: When will someone tell what my war was like? Lair said. Combat veterans offered a truly unique and special contribution to the war, but that doesnt mean it wasnt a sacrifice for people who served as support, Lair said. I say 16 months because his orders were involuntarily extended because he was in the ROK when the USS Pueblo was taken. We had an Infantry MOS Soldiers on one of our Sheridan Tanks. In-depth strategy and insight into critical interconnection ecosystems, datacenter connectivity, product optimization, fiber route development, and more. HMD released its report, Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, Jan. 9, 2015. Drug abuse, overdoses, crime and traffic accidents led to several deaths within his unit. Deploy network infrastructure faster and easier than ever before, with pre-packaged yet massively scalable infrastructure components for top packet and optical systems. You would think (serving in Germany) would be a great duty, but it wasnt.. would have to use the scheduled bus service to get around the base, Lair wrote in Armed with Abundance.. "The song selection includes songs that were playing in the States, and very much expressed the countercultural sentiments of political resistance in this country at that time," Hollander says. I was able to get into a band there. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. That was where I met my wife. We have four children, plenty of grandchildren, both biological and through marriages, and five great-grandchildren. Most of his time was spent protecting government buildings from Vietnam War protesters. This includes individuals who performed service in the Air Force or Air Force Reservewho regularly operated, maintained, or served onboard C-123 aircraft known to have been used to spray herbicides during the Vietnam era. But in Vietnam, the Cold War became an inferno. visit VeteransCrisisLine.net for more resources. Involved in the Vietnam War 877-222-8387, TDD (Hearing Impaired) After completing Field Artillery Officer Candidate School at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, Shkurti was sent to Germany not Vietnam. 2) Amsterdam, The Netherlands. Boy, I thought I had it made, Shkurti said with a small laugh. Morale was bad, and there were racial problems, Shkurti said. There werent enough NCOs (non-commissioned officers), not enough support or spare parts. It's there to boost morale, it's there to provide entertainment and comfort for soldiers, it's there to sort of represent what the U.S. is musically, culturally to the rest of the world.". Like suburban sprawl, the largest American bases just kept getting bigger, Lair said. I thought, hot dog, going to go relic hunting. Germany During Hitt says he had already been in one Army band by the time he joined the group. When support servicemen crossed paths with combat troops, We felt guilty. During the war, these men felt like they were part of the military endeavor, but its not what the public celebrates. Still, a ration card would allow personnel to buy $2,000 to $3,000 worth of goods, she said. GRAFENWOEHR, Germany More than 30 veterans of the Vietnam War living in Germany were awarded pins Tuesday by the local Veterans of Foreign Wars post in recognition of their service. Long Binh was not a standard base, but it was home to the Armys Vietnam headquarters and showed the abundance and consumerism that was possible to create. They wore dirty boots and dog tags hanging around their necks. It's kind of both complicated and disjointed, it was a struggle to be sure. We wore different uniforms. They proudly served their country, but were derided by combat troops as REMFs or rear echelon mother (insert expletive here), Appy said. So many popular movies feature the combat side of war ground combat or maybe the air war. VA decides these claims on a case-by-case basis. After discharge in 1976, Thornton took his 4-year-old daughter and pregnant wife home to her family and used the GI Bill to earn an a degree in allied health sciences from University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. After that, the search was on for as many of these Army bands as they could find. A new compilation pulls together some of those old records it's called East of Underground: Hell Below. I know that was very dependent upon where you called home, but that was my reality, Thornton said. After Nazi Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, four countries representing the Allies (the United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, and France) asserted joint authority After Boston, Thornton served at Marines Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. stationed in Germany The NATO maneuver Reforger I (Return of Forces to Germany) in Vilseck/Grafenwhr in 1969 was one of many joint war games held by the US Army and the Bundeswehr. When we graduated we lined up in front of a building that you entered one at a time on one side and after getting your paper work you exited out the other side. He attributed it to where he happened to be standing in a formation. In the late 65 through 1966, the Army Divisions outside of Vietnam, specifically CONUS and West Germany were hemorrhaging personnel for service in South Vietnam, these being primarily if not exclusively volunteers, these numbers had to be made good. To preserve morale, the ration program ensured that all personnel were able to buy highend goods, but it was limited due to the possibility they might resell goods on the black market, Lair said. Attention A T users. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. Out of our entire class I believe two, maybe three guys got orders for Korea. 8) Bruges, Belgium. C-123 Airplanes and Agent Orange Residue - Public Health Germany After graduating from Ohio State University in 1968, William Shkurti said, I knew I was going to be drafted so I enlisted. David Hollander produced the compilation. The band formed while its members were stationed in Germany during the Vietnam War. According to the report, from 1972 to 1982, approximately 1,500 to 2,100 Air Force Reserve personnel trained and worked on C-123 aircraft that previously had been used to spray herbicides, including Agent Orange, in Vietnam. Arriving in West Germany, was a shocking experience for the new Army recruit. Eventually Shkurti was sent to Vietnam and served as an artillery officer with B Battery 2 / 35th Artillery at Fire Support Base Lanyard on the Cambodian border in 1970-71. Reservists who were assigned to flight, ground, or medical crew duties at the following locations between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. He was friendly with street urchins who would badger him for chocolate and other small treats. Adopting a variety of organizational arrangements, including an engineer command from 1966 to 1974, USAREUR and its engineers attempted to find the most efficient and effective means to use the scarce resources available for construction and maintenance. Only about one out of seven were combat troops, said historian Chris Appy, history professor at University of Massachusetts Amherst. The enemy was the Soviet Union and the other signatories of the Warsaw Pact, including the German Democratic Republic, or East Germany. WebHere are our top 13 places to see while youre stationed in Germany: (click on any city name below to learn more) 1) Prague, Czech Republic. Reflecting back, Im more skeptical whether a war of choice can help defend a country in the long run. The goal of keeping soldiers well-fed was that they would be happy, stay out of trouble and avoid vices like drugs or prostitution, she said. In response to this fear, the United States deployed large forces to West Germany. Instead of breaking them up, Army brass sent them on tour. Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. Vietnam War I personally met over the years quite a few guys in my neighborhood that enlisted in the Army, 3 years like you said, interesting thing was that not one served in South Vietnam, even up to two duty station changes, in example serving in CONUS then Panama, etc, I recall one guy I met in a bar who enlisted for 3 1967-70, an Ordnance guy, said he served his whole three years after Basic (Bliss) and AIT (Aberdeen) as wheeled vehicle mechanic at West Point, you know in the regular army component at the academy. Outdoor Recreation Center. One colonel joked, If we ever really got attacked, the V.C. He was with the 3rd Infantry Division in Schweinfurt. 2 weeks before we graduated they told us, " Class 17, RVN". This large and rapid buildup required a tremendous amount of construction, carried out by Army Engineers and largely financed by occupied Germany. With pressures on USAREUR in the mid-1970s to reduce the size of its headquarters and budget, the command asked the Corps of Engineers to take responsibility for military construction in the theater. She served me milk and cookies, and we have been together now for 44 years, Thornton said. The high rate may have been attributed to our being an Infantry MOS, but the only way you didn't go to Vietnam was because of the above reasons. As the Soviet system, like the Berlin Wall, collapsed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, it appeared that American and allied forces in Europe had accomplished their mission without war. One of the biggest lessons Dr. After the defeat of Germany, the relatively small American force in Europe was preoccupied with the administration and reconstruction of their former foe. To make it even more complicated, just what is a combat veteran? At least we all went to the same unit, one guy and I went through basic together. For guys drafted during Vietnam, what really were the odds they would be sent to Vietnam as opposed to remaining stateside, or sent to Germany or Korea? People dont understand how consequential the decisions were that were being made at headquarters, he said. No matter where veterans served in Vietnam, they were a close witness to danger. Error, please try again. TCDD, the toxic substance in Agent Orange, may be inhaled as an aerosol or ingested by contaminated food or water or from hand-to-mouth transfer. The winners toured other military bases and made records. It's from here that controversial drone missions are flown against targets in Africa and Asia. Men facing shipping out exhibited many types of behavior. Their lot was really rugged, Lomperis said. Troop Deployment, 1950-2003 But as the confrontation between the Soviet Union, our former ally, intensified with the Berlin blockade and the outbreak of the Korean War, American leaders grew fearful that the next target of international communism was Western Europe, which contained our most important democratic allies and a rapidly rebuilding capitalist economy. Life athome goes on without them, and it must have been difficult to navigate when they returned, she said. Brutal tactics were the norm during the Vietnam War, and no one suffered more than the Vietnamese themselves, both in the North and the South. Country western music blared all over Saigon, Lomperis said. Active duty personnel who served in a regular USAF unit location where a contaminated C-123 was assigned who had regular contact with the aircraft through flight, ground, or medical duties between 1969 and 1986, and who developed an Agent Orange related disability. The songs East of Underground played weren't your run-of-the-mill patriotic marches in fact, some of them included controversial lyrics about race and politics. Their silence carried a message and concealed the fact that many veterans served in the rear echelon and not in combat capacity, Lair said. If you dig into it, it becomes a very grey war, he said. Responding to these concerns, VA asked the Health and Medicine Division (HMD) (formally known as the Institute of Medicine) of the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine to study possible exposure and increase in adverse health effects in C-123 crew members. "I'm just amazed that [the band's] three singers didn't have hit records after they left the Army. Powered by Invision Community, Vietnam Era Draftees Stationed in W.Germany, South Korea, and CONUS, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. Stationed His unit lost more men to overdose and traffic accidents in Germany than to combat in Vietnam. Once we got our orders, the guy Just below me went to Germany. Engineers and USACE remained in Europe, still proud of their contribution to defending Western Europe and ending the Cold War. Im also more respectful of what servicepeople endure. So many servicemen came home and saw how the story (of the Vietnam War) was being told. WebThe United States Army has 40 military installations in Germany, two of which are scheduled to close. They were the rear echelon. More military personnel played support roles than combat ones. As the threat of imminent invasion receded in the late 1950s, U.S. Army Engineers continued to build and maintain facilities that supported American and NATO combat power and housed and supported U.S. forces and their families, now permanently stationed in West Germany. So there was a great need for personnel outside South Vietnam through out the entire period, and the refusal to mobilize the Reserves and National Guard only exacerbated the problem. He wasn't wealthy or connected in anyway and he also had an Infantry MOS and he was one of three soldiers out of his basic training platoon that went to the ROK. On leave, Thornton would head home to see family and friends, but the war changed things. Like all the other members, he was a draftee, and had come from a tiny town in Mississippi. was told," you are going to Germany, get your wives in german class". They also ate pretty well. In Germany the U.S. military was protecting West Germany against the threat of Russian invasion, but it wasnt imminent, Shkurti said. "I've done my own searches on Google and so forth, but I cannot find anything," Hitt says. 18th Military Police Brigade (United States Is it just the guy with the gun? They worked in intelligence. Both Germany and Vietnam were on the front lines of the Cold War. There were Viet Cong all over the place, but if you were street-smart you stayed safe, Lomperis said. Is it if you might be in danger of a mortar attack versus projecting violence and delivering it to the enemy? An average of 311,870 troops were stationed in Europe per year during 19861990. You had no say in what your MOS would be. Their story got eliminated. My close friend had a similar experience in 69-70. I was thinking I would have a better chance of determining where I would be sent.. Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. Vietnam Era Draftees Stationed in 800-829-4833, Veterans Crisis Line: Huge streams of paperwork came through military intelligence offices that allowed Lomperis a birds eye view of the war and how it functioned. One would fly overhead about every 60 seconds, remembers the professor emeritus of political science at Saint Louis University. 9) Luxembourg Hit enter to expand a main menu option (Health, Benefits, etc). When they got home they were all the same (veterans), but they did not all have an equal experience. He was awarded the U.S. While having a positive attitude about any PCS is important, its equally important to have realistic expectations. Good food makes people feel at home, Lair said. Buddy C. Thornton learned from his military service was Always live for the day. In response the Corps of Engineers drastically reduced the size of EUD and reconstituted it as the Europe District. The Vietnam War was a long, costly and divisive conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam against South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. At any moment all hell could break loose, Lair said. During that time, I was assigned to the sick officers quarters, sadly watching many men pass away. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. Don't forget Panama and Alaska, Alaska itself in that time period had two Infantry Brigades separate stationed there. Not enrolled in the VA health care system? German Chancellor Gerhard Schrder, knowing the majority of voters supported him, ruled out Germany's involvement. They were selected during something called "The U.S. Army's Original Magnificent Special Services Entertainment Showband Contest" let's just call it a battle of the bands. 4) The Alps Swiss, German or French. During the war, in-country combat and support troops could be identified on sight, said author Timothy Lomperis, who served two tours of duty in Vietnam in the Army and Defense Intelligence Agency. With two sons already in the war, they felt I should not go. A rare photo of East of Underground in performance. The US Army employed 17,000 American civilians in Germany in 2019. I was in Boston when the Chelsea fire occurred in October 1973, received a meritorious unit citation for fighting the fire that consumed a large portion of Chelsea 18 blocks one way, 16 blocks another. Its kind of like playing goalie for a soccer team. Being a noncombatant doesnt mean they didnt feel scared, that there wasnt a looming sense of danger even onthe biggest bases that were considered safer areas, Lair said. He now is an adjunct professor in the John Glenn College of Public Service. Home was tough because my parents did not agree with my volunteering. "Bear in mind that these bands were all engaged in a show band contest in 1971 and 1972, and the winners of the that contest would then be able to tour Europe, and would also record an LP in the Armed Forces Network studios in Frankfurt. Regardless of how we each served, part of our soul was left in that place with those who never came back alive, and with those who suffered and died after, and we should be honored for our collective loss if for no other reason. I thought it would be easy, but it was actually tough, said Shkurti, who served as a fire direction officer and supervised a six-person team. Dotted around US bases are numerous residential districts for American soldiers and their families, such as this residential district in Wiesbaden-Erbenheim. But that tradition was set on its ear back in the late 1960s and early '70s, when the PFCs stationed overseas formed their own pop bands. This is the official public website of the Headquarters U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. They wore fatigues and carried M16s. Over 220 others have already been closed, mostly following the end of the Cold War in the 1990s. I ask this because many guys of draft age enlisted, enlisted specifically for three years to chose their MOS, and in a great many cases avoid serving in South Vietnam. They were also stationed in Germany, Japan, Thailand, Philippines, Korea, Guam and the continental United States. And there were the German-American friendship weeks every year. The following individuals may qualify for benefits related to Agent Orange exposure: Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to Agent Orange residue on post-Vietnam C-123 airplanes. If you enlisted you would serve 3 years and chose your MOS. Sign up for a new account in our community. Upon graduating they lined us and announced that if your last name started with A through J your orders were Germany and K through Z your orders were Vietnam. Knowing that the threat is so close by is an incentive for people to work together. We would take orders from Washington and from the five information streams (personnel, intelligence, operations, logistics and political implications) and use all that information to create an order of the day, Lomperis said. I am focused on peace and conflict reduction on a global and local scale, he said. Most of all, Army bands will strive to honor General George Washington's observation, "Nothing is more agreeable and ornamental than good music. Especially from the minority groups, our black comrades, because they bore the brunt of the draft, were very unappreciated, and made the ultimate sacrifice above and beyond other groups, and for what? Thornton said. They have rock climbing, paddle boarding, BBQ grills, a restaurant, hiking trails, and more. Some people feel the term Vietnam veteran should refer only to those who served in Vietnam, but the U.S. government defines them all as Vietnam-era veterans according to the Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 any veteran who served on active duty during the official time frame of the Vietnam War (1961-1975). Ask me or any other serviceperson and they will tell you they are proud of their service, Shkurti said. Vietnam The experience that most people likely associate with Vietnam is the horror and deprivation of war, so its ironic that that wasnt the real experience of most Vietnam veterans, Lair said.
