Mag. was also the only cartridge of that original Remington family that was based on a different parent case. From my collection Winchester 1894. Cold Shower Face And Body Wipes | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Review: Taurus G3 Tactical | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Video Review: Browning Citori Hunter Grade II Over/Under Shotgun | NRA Family, Video Review: Savage 93 Minimalist Rifle | NRA Family, Video Review: Springfield Armory XD-M Elite 4.5 OSP in 10mm Auto | NRA Family, Make Mine Metal: The Alloy-Frame KelTec P15 | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Smith & Wesson Performance Center M&P9 M2.0 Competitor | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, NRA Women | New for 2022: 20-Gauge Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus, Preview: Springfield Armory 1911 DS Double-Stack 9 mm Pistol Lineup | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. WINCHESTER 1907 351. Considerations for Handloading World War II-Vintage Rifle Ammunition Shootability Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester. Dear Socialists: I have no money for you. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. McPherson. Check out GunBroker. I have shot a few critters, including a tough South Texas Nilgai, and have been happy with the performance. The first 100,000 cartridges manufactured were headstamped ".30 SL" (for "self-loading"). Javascript is required. I believe it never will. WOOD HAS A REPAIRED CRACKS BUT IS SOLID. You will never get the recoil spring back in it. The Plainfield Machine Company (later taken over by Iver Johnson's Arms) sold a sporting rifle copy of the M1 carbine chambered for this cartridge but only about 500 were made. Many companies now offer bolt, semi-auto, and single-shot rifles chambered in the Legend, but the .30-30 can be found in the same variety. Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. Even though Winchester developed a round suitable for straight blowback actions, the rifle they eventually submitted designed by William Roemer and Fred Humeston, and based on the work done by convict David Marshall Williams was a gas-operated, locked breech design. It's original load is already moving at the speed and with the energy of a 30 carbine but with a 70gr heavier bullet Click to expand. The original 1941 load specifications for the Ball M1 round was 13 grains of WC 820 Ball propellant, a .308-inch 110-grain round-nose (RN), flat-base (FB) projectile traveling at 1,900 feet per second (fps) at 53 feet from the muzzle with a chamber pressure is . . The .350 Rem. revolvers, so why wouldnt a 35 WSL or 351 WSL not be good for hunting? There are photos of hunters taking a polar bear with a 357 Mag revolver! For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. Though Winchester Self-Loading Rifles in .351 WSL and .401SL are not in the same league as bolt action rifles chambered in .308 Win or .30-06 Springfield, thats not really a fair comparison. Several manufacturers submitted proposals, and Winchester's little "United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1," or, more simply, the M1 carbine, was the winning design. The Remington Model 673 Guide Rifle was chambered in .350 Rem. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. Another $300. We are also beginning to deliver those bullets as components. For more detailed ballistics information please refer to the exact round in question or contact the manufacturer for the pertinent information. M44/Carbine; Mini-14 Type; Model 77; RWS Rifles; S Misc Rifles; Saiga Rifles. Spl. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. I had Clay at prophet river in Alberta bring in 22 ;auto ammo for my 1903 22sl, they work good and are a run that Aquila runs once a year I believe, I ended up buying at least 800 or more rounds. Smooth handsome gun with fine wood to metal fit and overall light handling marks, wi WINCHESTER 1910 401. Specifically, they had a significant problem developing a caliber powerful enough to be suitable for big game, yet usable in the 1903 type blowback autoloading action. Copyright 2023 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved, 25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270: The Results Might Surprise You, 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled. This is a bolt action rifle with a 5round internal magazine and sports a 22 blued steel barrel with visible rif WINCHESTER 06 22 S,L,LR. & scope has rust alon WINCHESTER 21 12GA 30 F/M. Both the Legend and the .30-30 are most comfortable in the medium-to-large-game category, but the .30-30 offers a slightly wider array of bullet weights and applications. Therefore, the M1 carbine is significantly less powerful than the M1 Garand. Cumpston, Mike, "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", "CARTRIDGE AND CHAMBER DRAWINGS CENTERFIRE RIFLE", "Rimless cartridges, Calibres of rifled long centre fire weapons for rimless cartridges", "BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch:: .357 Mag Results", "Liberator's Truimphal March Through An Ecstatic Island", "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.30_Carbine&oldid=1152171899, Winchester Repeating Arms Company cartridges, Articles with failed verification from July 2020, Pages using infobox firearm cartridge with unknown parameters, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 28 April 2023, at 17:05. . I have fired them all except the .22waiting for some ammo. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. Auction (19) .351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL) - CHUCKHAWKS.COM This suggests that in normal times, the .30-30 is easier to find. . But do you know the real-world differences between a standard cartridge and a Weatherby Sign in to access your profile, save content and more. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. According to a recent Federal Emergency Management Agency report, fewer people are "prepping" today compared to previous years. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. Show Only with Pictures In fact, as Speckin explains, the whole series of Winchester Self-Loaders were designed as smokeless semiautomatic analogs for the saddle carbine role. Why cant we love the .35? This makes sense: the Legend was developed specifically for use in Midwestern whitetail states that require straight-wall cases. I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. This .350 Legend from Federal, for example, can launch a 160-grain bullet about 2,300 feet-per-second while this .30-30 fires a 150-grain bullet about the same speed. As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. Classified Ad (1000+), Search Full Text of Listings 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonchannel 13 weather girl pregnant; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonphiladelphia inmate mugshots; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonhanalei hat company; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonpan peninsula canary wharf service charge 351 winchester vs 35 remington. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. 351 winchester for sale and auction. Winchester Model 74 Semi-Auto, Pre-War .22 short. USOG 60.7K subscribers Subscribe 40K views 4 years ago Join me for a look at another great investment rifle. The first design was further modified for Winchester's second prototype, adopted September 30, 1941 as the Carbine Caliber .30, M1. Even the military wouldnt use semi or full auto ( hand held) fearing soldiers would shoot too much ammo. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. These seemingly small differences added up to a significant . Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Reloading Centerfire Ammunition: Tips For Getting Started, Shooting and Loading the 6.8x43 mm Rem. Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351 As a rule of thumb, when it comes to hunting, muzzle energy is what many hunters look at when deciding on what caliber of firearm / ammunition to select. This 180-grain load from Federal drops 9.4 inches at 200 yards and 34.1 inches at 300 yards. Cartridges are (usually) widely available and dont cost more than the .350 Legend. But the military has hundreds of millions of 30-06 ammo from WW1, and didnt want a new caliber. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. If the .35 Rem. Bottom line? Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. No matter if its books, art or hunting cartridges, its only those with a deep understanding of the subject who can fully understand the greatness often buried in obscurity. In a now-famous story, Roy Weatherby launched his wildcatting career after he lost a wounded deer on his first hunt in 1942. necked up to .35 caliber. the Marlin 336 seems to have a beefier action though and is more easily scoped than the earlier Winchesters. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? For hunting, it is considered a small-to-medium-game cartridge. Mag. Due in large part to the limited utility of those cartridge,the Model 1905 was not a major commercial success. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. Hornady Critical Defense: 1990 fps. These were theWinchester Self-Loading (WSL) rounds, including .32 WSL, .35 WSL, .351 WSL, and .401 WSL. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. LENGTH OF MAGAZINE 5.99? features a Weaver K 2.5 scope. while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. too. Where carbine fire had proven killing effect, approximately 95 percent of the time the target was dropped at less than 50 yards. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. 1 - Existing barrel making equipment could be made use of. I did read a article that said in the 1920s, the military tried experimented using a Remington model 1908 in 25 Remington and soldiers liked shooting it as compared to bolt action 30-06. Claw extractor bolt action rifle, target stock, 1961 manufacture date, metal is in 99% condition, perfect bore sho Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel, claw extractor bolt action rifle, target stock, 1961 manufacture date, metal is in 99% condition, perfect bore sho Winchester 23 Golden Quail .410g. During that time, Winchester produced over 49,000 rifles, including over 8,000 produced during World War I and World War II. If you broaden your search to the World Wide Web, most online carriers offer twice as many .30-30 options. The .401 WSL fired a 200 grain .406caliber soft point bullet at 2,140 feet per second for a walloping 2,034 ft-lbs of energy. Each round was a straight-walled, semi-rimmed cartridge firing a round-nosed bullet at modest pressure, just like the .30 Carbine. If we compare the .300 Win. Please email us if you have questions about any of our product listings. Gun #: 943226118 . If youd like to read some of the other posts my father has written for this blog, visit the links below: The .219 Zipper: A Good Cartridge That Didnt Quite Pan Out, One Mans Attempt At Explaining Hunting To Non-Hunters, 405 Winchester: Roosevelts Medicine Gun For Lions. It was even used in Africa. This is the Winchester Model 62A chambered in .22S,L,LR. The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguablythe first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. 7677 Winchester Model 94AE, 30-30, NRA limited to 500, engraved Deer on receiver Adjustable rear s Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester. GunGeek # 7867163 07/03/13. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbinethen save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. When we pitted the 30 Carbine vs 5.56, the 5.56 won 7/10 categories and tied in two, thanks to its low recoil and high accuracy capabilities. In todays post, my dad will go over the history of the .401 and .351 Winchester Self-Loading cartridges in detail and cover why they were initially developed and why they eventually fell by the wayside. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. hit the market in 1895 paired with Winchester's now . 351 winchester vs 35 remington - behaviourbrasil.com.br Read today's "The Armed Citizen" entry for real stories of law-abiding citizens, past and present, who used their firearms to save lives. Hard to find here in Canada. .30 Carbine Combo - Shooting Times the m1 carbine owes a lot of its parentage to the 351. Thats a question I just dont understand. As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. From a four-inch (102mm) barrel, it launched the standard GI ball projectile at 1,277ft/s (389m/s), producing an average group of 4.18 inches (106mm) at 25 yards (23m); the military decided not to adopt the revolver. Federal only offers two bullet weights for the Legend (160 grain and 180 grain). Duke's newest prize is a fine-condition Winchester Model 1907 .351 WSL. Versatility refers to the range of animals that could be realistically harvested with a cartridge. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps and the muzzle energy 1370 ft. lbs. In firearms with a blowback action like the Model 1903, the breech is not locked and depends on a balance between the cartridge pressure characteristics, the heavy breechblock, and a powerful recoil spring for reliable functioning. . The .356 Win. The Rifle In America (p728, 730-731, & 733) was used as a referencefor the history of the cartridges discussed as well as their ballistic data. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. This is an Oviedo 1918 Spanish mauser chambered in .308 Winchester. WINCHESTER 06 22 S,L,LR. as a way to boost the power of the Model 94 lever-action rifle. Realistically, the Winchester Model 1905 was only useful to control vermin around the farm or for taking small game. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. 80% BLUE. GI#: 102196509. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group .351 Winchester Self-Loading - Wikipedia Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. Please enable javascript before you are allowed to see this page. They truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool. Winchester only sold about 29,000 Model 1905 rifles from 1905 to 1923. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. It would cost into the 800dollar range just to rebuild one. Two absolutely worthless cartridges, 30 cal M-1 carbine and the .351 have provided the insightful highway for some decent rounds. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. Both of them had Long Tom 94's in 30-30 Winchesters. Winchester BismuthReview: Your Complete Guide, Best Hunting Rifle Slings Ultimate Guide [2023], 25-06 vs 30-06 Springfield Review & Comparison, 6.5 Grendel vs 300 Blackout Review & Comparison, 11 Reasons The Leupold VX-6HD Is An Outstanding Hunting Scope, 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Review & Comparison, 28 Nosler vs 300 Win Mag Review & Comparison, Best 22 Hornet Ammo For Hunting Coyotes, Bobcats, & Other Varmints, 15 Best African Hunting Books For When Youre Dreaming Of Being On Safari[2023], Best 350 Legend Ammo For Hunting Deer, Hogs, Bear, & Other Game, Best 6.8 Western Rifles for Hunting Ultimate Guide [2023]. Comments have to be approved before showing up, 2023 Foundry Outdoors - All Rights Reserved, Product successfully added to your Shopping Cart, 223 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 243 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 25 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 300 RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, 7mm RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info & Chart. He became convinced that faster, flatter-shooting cartridges would take game more reliably, and the resulting line of Weatherby Magnum cartridges has been doing just that since he founded Weatherby in 1945. H Winchester Round Barrel Rifle, made in 1882. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. You are being redirected - Shooters' Forum All of this might sound like splitting hairs, and it is. The Legend has more trouble fighting wind and gravity. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. Back in the day, shooters were just transitioning from black powder to smokeless powder. It should come as no small comfort for any patriotic American to know that the countrys firearm industry is vibrant and productive, still faithfully serving the needs of armed citizens, law-enforcement officers and military personneljust as it has for more than two centuries. A 10 mph crosswind will move the bullet 8.9 inches and 21.6 inches at those distances. We have a variety of deals on Rifle Ammo, Handgun Ammo, Shotgun Ammo & Rimfire Ammo, as well as ammo for target practice, plinking, hunting, or shooting competitions. WOOD HAS A REPAIR AT THE WRIST. . Chambered for a .351-cal. Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester cartridge you're looking at purchasing. bumping this, I obtained a magazine for the first one shown up top - for a mere $64. predecessor, the Model 1907 was an immediate hit . The first cartridges were made by turning down rims on .32SL cases and loading with .308 caliber bullets which had a similar profile to those of the U.S. military .45 ACP bullets. All that being said, if one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle that you would be very unlikely to encounter in the woods in the hands of another hunter, the Winchester Model 1907 and Model 1910 autoloaders in .351 Winchester or .401 Winchester would be a great choice. Don't own one, shot one quite a lot back in the day when a kinsman had one. M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. "[8] The evaluation also reported that "[c]ommanders noted that it took two to three engagements at least to settle their men to the automatic feature of the carbine so that they would not greatly waste ammunition under the first impulse of engagement. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. The .358 Norma Mag. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. The .35 Rem. By comparison, the .30-06 M2 cartridge for M1 Garand rifle fired a ball bullet weighing 152 grains (9.8 g) at a muzzle velocity of 2,805ft/s (855m/s) and 2,655ftlbf (3,600 joules) of muzzle energy. This gun is in excellent condition in its orignal hardcase with keys. Since the sights on Model 1907's consisted of a blade front with open rear, its practical range was about 150 yards. The trouble is, they didnt sell. Winchester introduced the .351 SL in the Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a replacement for the Winchester Model 1905 and the .35 SL. Made from premium-grade, vegetable-tanned leather, the Burdette Custom Holsters Detective SA-35 holster is a custom outside-the-waistband (OWB) model for the Springfield Armory SA-35 semi-automatic pistol. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. Sorry, there are no results in your area. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. They shot lever actions and bolt actions, and probably didnt understand semi auto rifles. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. All we do know for sure is that it was either Howe or Whelen, or both, who necked the .30-06 Sprg. Particularly not with all of the various chamberings and uppers you can get on the AR platform these days. The work must have been done in the tool shed, but the rifle was a shooter. The .350 Legend goes for $1.15 to $2.30/round and the .30-30 Winchester anywhere from $1.15 to $4.70/round. But whats good for military purposes isnt always ideal for the deer blind. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. The velocity and energy figures in this table are taken from various sources including the Federal, Remington, Weatherby and Winchester ammunition guides and the 9th Edition of the book Cartridges of the World by Frank C. Barnes and edited by M.L. During WW2, when army brass asked Winchester to make up a light, handy rifle to replace 1911 pistols, Winchester wanted to use either the 351 WSL or 32 WSL, but army brass wanted a 30 caliber. Dubbed by Winchester as the "fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world," the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps, and the muzzle energy 1370 ft.-lbs. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. round barrel worn finish and cracked butt plate please view pictures for condition. They dont have that coveted NATO designation. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. Winchester 351 Self-Loading: Truly Amazing! - YouTube The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities.
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